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Sage Advice from Logan Hassinger
I’m excited to have a special guest joining us from the DFW market. It’s our buddy Logan Hassinger from Sage Notes. He is doing some amazing things and taking down some deals, not just small, one-off either. He’s doing some bigger notes and can’t cash in. We’re excited to have him because of a couple of things. Not only is he taking action and we’ll be talking about some of the deals that he’s done, but he’s working towards his goal of financial independence, of being able to leave what he’s doing now to focus full-time. Are you doing this part-time right now?
Part-time until about 2:00 in the morning.
You’ve got your side hustle, 7:00 PM to 2:00 AM. For those that don’t know who you are, Logan, why don’t you take it a little bit and talk about who you are and your background getting into real estate and notes?
I started out with my Bachelor’s in finance pursuing the investments space going towards wealth management. I transitioned through some private equity reporting and currently sitting in a financial reporting role for a large national firm focusing on body collision work. You may or may not have heard of them, but they’re pretty large. That’s given me some exposure to some different areas, allowing me some free time though as well. Back in 2015 is when I read a book called Rich Dad Poor Dad on my way of studying to become a CFA or a Charter Financial Analyst, thinking the corporate path was what I was going for. That book was eye-opening, to say the least. I told myself if I had failed the test results, which were about a month out, then the real estate was going to be what I was going to do. Ever since then, we’ve bought five or six rental properties, have sold all those off now and have jumped into the note space full-time and trying to hit the ground running as fast as I can.
You got into the landlord space first, rentals and you did some fix and flips as well too?
We sure did, right here in the DFW area.
Over how long of a time period was that?
I started in 2015 to early 2019. We sold the last rental property here.
Did you buy them pretty cheap?
That’s what helped us build some equity on the frontend. We were finding distressed sellers for whatever reason. Buying cheap, fixing the property up and holding it for a couple of years. I intended on keeping it for lifetime cashflow, but quickly I learned that some CapEx will eat away at that along with some tenant turns. I decided that we had significant equity in the properties to go ahead and pull it out and see what else was out there that I could really scale. The rental business was difficult for me to envision scaling and wanting to do full-time. It wasn’t that appealing after we were neck deep in it.
You’re like, “This is great, but I don’t want to do this the rest of my life.”
It paid as well. I have no complaints about it. I still push people that way as well. It’s a good investment but you’ve got to know what you’re doing and you’ve got to keep nailing it down or it’s going to fall apart in my opinion.
How do you find about the note space?
I was on another cashflow podcast on my way to work and you were a guest speaker on that show. I was like, “Notes, I remember notes a couple of years back.” I didn’t really understand the inner workings of how they work, but I was like, “Mailbox money. I can sign up for that.” I’m not giving up my mailbox money now. I jumped over to your podcast and I probably listened to 40 or 50 episodes in about ten days and immediately signed up for Fast Track and came down.
I think you went through the Virtual Note or the Blueprint, too.
I thought that was a hands-on approach and I was like, “Nope.” After you informed me that’s not hands-on, I was like, “Just tell me where the hands-on are and I’ll be there.”
The thing is you came in and you immediately took action though.
You showed me the pieces of the marketing aspect that I didn’t know existed or was needed in the note space, in real estate in general. I was rental properties on the side and just slowly but surely. If you want to scale it and make it something that was full-time, you really had to put a little bit more effort into it. You showed me the marketing side of things and what a note is and how to price things. The general scope from there and take it and run with it.
You also did a good job though. You had private investors that were funding your fix and flips. I think if I remember correctly, you talked to them and told them, “I’m going in a different direction. Do you guys want to be a part of this or not?”
I did. I’ve met about a week and a half, two weeks prior to heading down to Fast Track in November, I was already prepping them saying, “I’m in the process of selling the rentals. I’m going to have some cash. I know you guys are going to have some cash as well, but I’m not going forward the traditional fix and flip stuff. If you guys are still looking to earn some cash, then this is what I’m going to be doing. This is what I know so far and I’ll give you a call back on the way from Austin to DFW with the rundown,” and so far so good.
The reason I want to bring this up, it’s because I think a lot of people, and we get a lot of fix and flippers. We got a lot of landlords that are looking for better deals, better pricing and stuff and they’re just not saying because of the market’s competitive right now, especially in the DFW market for sure. It’s not the only market out there, but that’s where you’re at. I think a lot of people are scared to have that conversation with their funding partners.
It’s a conversation that they’re questioning what was wrong with the rentals or what didn’t work. My piece was always, “It’s not that it didn’t work. I’m looking for scalability and I’m looking for things that will offer me a longer approach that would get me where I wanted to be in the long run.” Rentals did that to a certain degree, but not to the level that I knew I wanted to be in the near term, which was one to three years. Having that conversation, explaining to them that I’m going down and learning everything that I can and putting a thing to work is what separated me from somebody else that’s like, “I think about doing notes or I’m thinking about doing fix and flips.” I went out and did the fix and flips and I went out and did the rentals and it made them money. That helped. Now, I was buying notes and they were like, “He didn’t just go down to go to a conference and talk to some guy so.”
He sees the shiny object syndrome and goes running back to them.
“Look what I found,” that’s not what we did.
You came to the Fast Track. We put the plan together and then you called them on the way back and said, “We’re gun barrels blazing, going forward.” What were some goals that you set yourself initially after going through the training and stuff like that? These are important things. I don’t think it’s as complicated as a lot of people will make them out to be.
The biggest piece for me was just getting a presence on social media. When I came down to Fast Track, I hadn’t had a Facebook in ten years. I had no social media accounts. Frankly, I got tired of looking at other people’s stuff. I realized you turned me on to me, “Forget what they think about you and forget about other people’s stuff. It’s about you and how you grow your business.” I left there with all my Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and all those things created. I got a website designed and ready to roll within about a month after the Fast Track. The other piece was the marketing to the asset managers and to my investor database. Although small at that time, you’ve got to build and start somewhere.
If I remember correctly, at night after dinner, during the Fast Track, you were actually going back to the hotel and the next morning you come in Saturday morning, “I did this. Can you check this out?” “I did this last night. Can you check it out?”
For me, I set sometimes too lofty of goals, but I’ve got to do that for myself so that I can do everything I can. Even though I’m probably not going to hit that goal, in the back of my head, it helps me get going. I had the goal of 100 deals this year. We’re probably not going to hit that. We’re at ten now. We’ve got a long way to go. Without that, if I said just do one, I did one in February, now what? I’ve got to keep the pedal down.
Let’s talk about some of those deals or let’s do this instead. You’re doing this, you have kids, and you’re getting married. How many hours do you put in your job? Let’s set up what your normal week, hour-wise, looks like for it for the readers out there.
It’s a 9 to 5 typical corporate job. It’s about a 30-minute drive there and back. I’ve got an hour’s worth of commute in between there. I’m home around 6:00. I’ve got two girls that I come home to, five and three. They take my time up, but I want them to take my time up. I get home and I put my bag down, I eat dinner and then we either go swimming in the pool. I just hang out, relax and be with them. They go to bed around 9:00 and I’m at the gym and then I’m back home working from usually 10:30 to 11:00 to about 2:00 in the morning. That’s typically three to four days a week and then some stuff on the weekends.
What are the activities that you’re doing from 10:00 PM to 2:00 PM?
It’s shifted. In the very beginning, it was honing in on finding asset managers and finding leads. I was scrubbing a lot of the accounting records stuff looking for an assignment of mortgages and things like that that you had talked about and that led to a deal.
There’s a nugget for people there. You did what? Which county did you pick?
In this case, I was looking in Buncombe County in Asheville, North Carolina. I liked the market and dove into that area. I was looking for the common grantee, grantors on the assignment of mortgages.
When you pulled your search, how big of a search did you do? A year or a month or six months?
I’ve been back to twelve months from whenever that date was.
Did they pull a big list for you?
It was roughly I want to say 3,000 records.
How did you whittle it down? Did you narrow it down?
Obviously, I’m very crafty with Excel, being my corporate jobs got all that in there. With something called the pivot table was able to slice the information the way I needed it to, just some counts and say, “Who’s got more than ten in the last year? These are the people that I want to focus on. Wells Fargo out, JPMorgan out,” and ran into a group called PennyMac, which I had heard of but didn’t know how big they were. They’re massive. At the time I didn’t know, so I went ahead and reached out on LinkedIn. That was the next follow up of who are some individuals that work at this company with some keywords, asset manager, special assets, distressed and anything I could think of. I came across a couple of individuals. That led to an email that got shuffled around within the company and then finally to the lead decision-maker on selling single one-off nonperforming loans.
How long a time period before you reached out initially to the time that you actually got to list? What time frame was that?
Probably for three weeks.
How many contacts did you have to make? Did you have to follow up more than once or five?
With that person there was no follow up. They reached out to me pretty quickly within the first week or so I’d submitted that LinkedIn request. They shuffled me around. Finally talking with the person, they invited me. They want to know that I had a servicer in place, who I was all the background about what we were doing and make sure that I could legit close if we got to that point. That was about a three-week process.
Obviously if you contact them on LinkedIn, they probably checked out your LinkedIn profile. You had a relatively brand new LinkedIn profile though?
LinkedIn, I had for a while. That was one of the things that I’ve picked up from college. That was probably eight or nine years old at the time. That was my only when I called social media, but I wasn’t active on it. There was really nothing other than just some prior job history.
You updated that though with your new stuff, some of your past fix and flips or things like that or no?
As soon as I left Fast Track, I started pushing stuff out there that we had closed on some things. I’m in the note space now. This is what I’m looking for. This is how we help borrowers in the end.
I’m only bringing it up because a lot of people don’t do the things we say to do and work, don’t they?
They do. The deals are going to make us some pretty good money here in the next month.
Let’s talk about that extra building. First of all, they sent you a list? This is a one-off asset?
We’ve got a list of about the 110, 100 assets. A lot of stuff is sitting in New York and I’m not interested. A lot of this paper was bought from JPMorgan back in 2010, 2011 and 2012. It was bottom of the barrel stuff for them that they were trying to move. At the end of the day, they had a floor for what they were trying to sell it for. I said, “Just give me your floors and I’ll see if it works.” We were able to find that asset and I was like, “There’s enough equity in the deal. We’re this far through the foreclosure process.” The borrower hadn’t made a payment in ten years. It was a part of condo development and the condo went under in 2006. Now they’ve finished the completion of the condos and people were coming in and buying them. He happened to buy one and the whole thing went under. Still operational now, but he didn’t make it out so well.
Let’s talk about the numbers on that. What was the value of the condo when you first came across it?
We were somewhere between $245,000 and $255,000.
What was the unpaid balance on the loan?
$254,000. You’d probably make about six payments on the loan and with all the arrears, interest and penalties, he was pushing $450,000.
Pay off, $450,000 valued $250,000. He hadn’t made a payment in ten years. Did anybody started the foreclosure process yet or not?
They were almost done with the foreclosure. They were just tired of messing with it. It was getting stuck in the appeals process. The borrower was trying to fight the fact that they were owed money on a title policy. There was some indication of forged signatures. They lost. The settlement was finished up in the appeals process, which cleared the way for the foreclosure, which had already been awarded but the appeal was holding it up. Probably five days after we took it and bought the note, we were awarded and we moved on. It was luck. It was action. It was a number of things, but it worked out.
Is the borrower out of the deal?
The borrower’s out. We own it as an REO.
What did you end up buying the note for?
What kind of percentage is that off of the $250,000 value?
We’re at $173,000. That’s $0.70. We’re looking at equity.
It has a significant amount of equity. $75,000 in there. Did this go smooth? Did you just walk in and turn around and sell it or did the borrower do some shady stuff to it?
The borrower did do some shady stuff to it. These are fully furnished units. There’s a rental program that each unit can be placed into as a vacation rental for when the owner is not there. We had all accounts that this thing was fully furnished and it was until about three days after the foreclosure sale. They ripped out everything. They took furniture, tabletops, dishes, silverware, oven, stackable washer and dryer. Just about everything you can take except for the countertops, lights and cabinets, which is fine. We still had money in it. Fully fixed up, you’re probably looking at $285,000 to $290,000. I got a list of what it would take to get back into the rental program from the property manager was about $17,000. It wasn’t worth us putting the additional money into it to make another $10,000 with that risk. Right now it’s listed for $265,000 on the market. We’re getting some help. We’ve got a property right next door to us, a unit listed at $310,000. We’re a deal and that’s been on the market for about seven, eight days now. There’s some pretty good interest. It’s a different property, so it’s going to be a different type of buyer. We’ve got full confidence that even if we dropped the price by $10,000, we’ll move it and we’ll be fine.
From the time that you bought the note to how far along are we saying from the time you bought the note right now?
About the notes, it’s March 15th, March 30th or somewhere in there. We’ll probably be out of it, I’m expecting by August 31st.
That’s not too bad. Five months in and out in $50,000 at least in profits.
At least, yes.
Are your funding partners on this? Are they a flat percentage?
They are in a flat percentage.
You’ve had some good success too talking with funding partners about getting stuff at pretty cheap interest rates, haven’t you?
I wouldn’t say cheap. It’s 10% of what we’re offering people. A lot of my connections are I wouldn’t say savvy investor with real estate, but they’re familiar with the returns that are generated from real estate. With that background, I’m not going to be able to offer the 4%, 6%, 8% returns. As long as the deal makes sense, then I can afford to pay the 10% because the way I see it at the end, a part of a deal is better than no deal. We’ll take what we can get for now.
That’s not so bad. $175,000 and you’re having 10%? You’d pay them basically $8,000 in interest costs along the time. Do you make $70,000 roughly?
Something like that.
That’s not too shabby. I’ll take every $50,000 I can get. Does Eliza get pretty excited about that?
When I first got into it, she was wishy-washy on me moving around from the rental stuff because that was tangible. It was easy to see. We could drive by it. With the note piece, I’d given her one of your books. She had read it and it made sense. She’s a big all talk and no action. She wanted to see some action. At the end of the day, we want a condo. I want you to fly up to Asheville and stay there for a night. There was no bed, but you can hang out there.
You go stay next door.
That’s right. She’s pretty excited about that property movement and she’s already carved out $1,000 so she can go to the mall or something.
You better have a good shut up check for that lady.
It’s already there. It’s already carved out of the closing statement.
Do you mind sharing what your financial goals because you have a goal of what you need coming in basically monthly to help you if you want to leave your current full-time gig?
I’m completely honest with this to anybody that I talked to in terms of my numbers. My daily, I’d like to push in $6,000 to $7,000 a month with our latest note that we picked up out in California. That was a sizeable property with a sizable note balance and the payment on that one was pushing $3,400 a month. Obviously that got me pretty close on top of the nonperforming stuff that I’ve gotten performing since. With the numbers right now, we’re probably about 75%, 80% of the way through of my cashflow goal of some recurring stuff. You get the windfalls like the $70,000 when we pick that up. I’m basing it off of just performing stuff that we can really count on.
Let’s talk about the California deal because you called me about it. I was like, “I think you got too many ducks, too much stuff in the barrel.” I will be the first one to say that I’m eating a little crow here because it’s turned out to be a phenomenal deal. I was like, “I don’t know.”
Joel helped us review the collateral and that one. He was like, “If this bank sells you any more, let me know because I want it.”
Let’s talk about that. Let’s not give away your source name. Is this from a hedge fund or another bank or what is it?
This is bank direct.
It’s a bank direct deal. How did you get ahold of these people through LinkedIn, email, phone calls?
Actually that was part of my asset manager email list. I think somebody that came through your list, because I know I didn’t source it. It was just constant contact. What it helped is that was finding some good subject lines that were catching people’s eyes. Again, my email got shuffled around within the bank and finally ended up at a VP of Treasury and he’s like, “I’ve got a scratch and dent or whatever you want to call a scratch and dent. Let’s talk about the loan. You let me know where you are.” That one was in Roseville, California. That’s closer to the mountains. It’s an out-there, more of a rural. It was an ag loan. They had taken out a construction loan back in 2007 to build a little property on five acres doing the business of growing strawberries, avocados, all types of stuff. It’s a big market for anybody that lives in that area, I didn’t know. That was where we brought in Joel to help review the collateral but also the asset. Utilizing Dickie Baldwin for inspections and getting O&E reports and everything on there.
Everything came back clean and exactly what we were looking for. That borrower had defaulted back in 2008, 2009 on the construction loan. They filed bankruptcy and about half loans were written off. That $900,000 of the loan was written down about $450,000. Over the last seven years, they’ve been paying consistent payments. I got a full seven-year payment history. They’ve actually been paying an additional $150 to $200 in additional principal every month on a regular basis. With that, coupled with how much equity was in the property, now is worth about $1.2 million. It’s a beautiful home, five bedrooms, three baths, 3,100 square feet. It was a good pickup. We were able to get that one. We paid $222,000 on a UPB of $284,000.
You pay basically $0.70 on the dollar for a loan, at what type of LTV though? How much is it worth again, $1.2 million? The underlying balance on the loan is $280,000.
$1.2 million. You’re basically 24% LTV that you paid $0.70 on the dollar for. That doesn’t suck. Those are good percentages because you still got $70,000 if you have to foreclose and all this equity. Honestly, they could go and take a private hard money loan out.
The borrower in this position has every incentive to keep making payments or find a way to refi us out, which I’m okay with.
What’s the underlying interest rate in the loan?
8% or 9%.
At a 30% discount, you’re seeing somewhere between 11% and 12% cash on cash return on your cashflow?
No, it’s pushing to 18%.
17.6% now that I remember correctly and then you’re an investor on this one. Are your money partners up relatively cheap on this one?
This one we decided, since we didn’t have the funds available, what I did on this one is as a short-term loan. We’re doing this with five months structured loan on this just at 10%. We’ll pay them out after we close the Asheville deal and cash them out. We’ll hold this one as a portfolio loan for us. I’m tying up some money, but again, our strategy is partial cashflow, partial profits on the backend. We’re trying to find that happy medium.
17.6% yield on your own funds is not bad.
Right now, I was making about 2.5% at my Wells Fargo savings accounts.
Those are two deals. The other eight has been a mixture of CFDs and nonperformers. What’s been up with the other ones that you bought?
When we started out around February with a nonperforming CFDs. It had a good indication on both of those loans that the borrowers were still there, the properties we’re in good shape. They weren’t letting things fall apart. We were able to get those reperforming with some forbearance agreements utilizing our friends out at a Polaris. I love those guys. They helped us accelerate the backup plan approach for our nonperforming stuff. Those are now switched to performing at Madison and we’re collecting payments every month on those. We’ve paid about $0.40 on the dollar for those CFDs with the values at $65,000 and UPB sitting around $45,000 to $50,000. We picked up three other CFD performing loans out in Georgia. We paid in total about $83,000 for those with a UPB of about $120,000. We’ve got a pretty good yield on those as well. On average about $0.75 on the dollar for those. Again, still just monthly payments being collected there. I started out solely focused on nonperforming stuff and then realizing, “If I’m going to do this full-time, I need some consistent income that I can count on. How am I going to get there?” I’ll throw in some performing stuff along the way. We’re still buying nonperforming stuff as well.
Has the raising capital gotten easier for you? Are the guys that you’ve dealt with before, still working with them or are you working with new people now?
I’m working with new people. Those guys are getting a little tapped. I was able to essentially raise $750,000 over the weekend for a loan deal that we’ve got. That was a quick phone call with a good close friend of mine that I had invested in some apartments, syndications and we’ve been talking. Actually, a BiggerPockets guy that I had known for four or five years now. That was a pool. The same seller from this last Roseville, California note. He called me at the grocery store. I was walking through picking out some steaks and he was like, “I’ve got an off the wall question. Do you buy small performing loans?” I said, “Sure, it’s not off the wall, but we’ll take a look at it.” He said, “I’ve got about $750,000 UPB on this, all in the Roseville area that you’re somewhat familiar with now.” We’ve passed them to Raymond James, which is a fairly large wealth management firm, a little too small for their liking. We should be getting that tape and we’ll look to try to take that one down as well.
Just follow up and complete the deal. An asset manager called you up and said, “Thanks for funding this deal. We’ve got another one for you.”
Before we even closed the first one, I was already hitting them up with, “I know we haven’t closed yet and they haven’t got the funds, but do you have anything else?”
The question is, what did you send the guy? I would be sending that guy a good bottle of scotch or bourbon, a box of cigars.
We’ve got a few things that we’d like to send based on gender and based on their role at the bank. Whether it’s edible arrangements, some chocolates, some whiskey or something, we’ll sneak that to the mailbox and get it out.
You set the goal of wanting to close on 100 deals your first year. Obviously things have changed a little bit and are you still doing this ten, fifteen hours a week? Doing anything on the weekends or strictly late Monday through Thursday nights?
I try to take it easy. Unless there’s something that comes in, I’ll take a look at the tape and high level to pick out some things that we want to do for Monday, but I try to scale back on the weekends. I was hitting it hard for the first three or four months every day. I was trying to figure out everything I could and trying to move forward. At this point, I’m trying to get a feel for what it’s going to be like on a full-time basis and trying to plan out my schedule and wake up. I’m going to do these things and schedule when I’m home.
One of the biggest things, you’re probably socking reserves away still. I know you’re a frugal guy anyway. Saving money, having expenses, obviously two girls and your wife, that’s always a concern. We’ve talked about that. Let’s talk about those goals. The one thing that comes to my mind is I would make sure that you’re hitting your financial goals for reserves and re-performing stuff without that big one added into it.
That’s exactly how I’m approaching it. The windfalls are exclusive of my calculation for cashflow. When they hit great, that’ll allow some additional capital if we want to add a performing loan or just stock away and use for rainy day funds.
How many deals do you think you’ll hit before the year is out?
If we can wrap up the seventeen, that’ll more than double us. I’d like to be at 50. We’ll see how it goes. I’ve got some outstanding bids on some other properties. We’ve got another bank that we’re looking at a commercial type of loan where an individual wrapped into four rental properties within the loan. He’s defaulted with I think about 350 days plus. I’m still waiting to hear back on that bid. That’ll push us to a few extra. Ideally we’re around 50.
The seventeen is the $750,000 that comes from Raymond James that we’re talking, right?
It is not coming from Raymond. Raymond was a potential buyer. It’s my undisclosed seller.
That’s right, don’t be sharing that with anybody. That’s a beautiful thing of you taking action, you putting the work in it. One of the things I want to push everybody is you had 90 days roughly where you were hitting it pretty heavily, putting your marketing and systems in place. What are some of the things you’re doing consistently now each week out to help market and raise capital?
On a weekly basis, it’s either publishing some not original content, just taking some articles that we find interesting out there and putting our spin on it and then throwing that out to our social media profiles and then also keeping up with our marketing to our asset managers.
What’s incorporated with that? What are you doing to your asset managers? Is it an email blast once a month, once a week?
I email blast typically on Tuesdays, Thursdays and sometimes Wednesdays. We’ll mix it up a little bit but at most, we’re doing it two times to a fresh list and then we’ll follow up with anybody that didn’t open. I try not to send too many emails to them. We are fairly on their radar, hopefully.
Do you know what open rates you’re getting on your asset manager emails?
It started out pushing 5%, 6%. Right now, it’s hovering around 1.5% to 2% on open rates.
That’s surprisingly low.
It’s dropped over the last couple of months. We’re getting a lot of out of office, whether it’s a holiday vacation or we no longer work here, go contact the other person. What I’ve been trying to do is scrub all those emails where they’re giving me additional contact information and then putting those in my database but it takes time. We’re trying to always increase it as people unsubscribe.
You’re still getting people that are reaching back out to you. It takes one person to send you a list. You just follow up to it.
We thought we had a pretty good opportunity with a realtor, a broker of notes to try to help a borrower out that was going through a short sale. We’re trying to go through the strategy that you had talked about at our last mastermind where we’d go through and we talked contact the loan sale department of the bank that’s going through the short sale and see if you can’t work through. This happened to be a Ginnie Mae loan. We’re unable to do anything with that. Somebody called us up because of an interesting subject line that I had and was curious about our process, how that can work. They were like, “If I ever see something like this again, I’m calling you.”
Are you sending a weekly email out to your regular investor contact database?
It’s picked up lately. I fell off that piece over the last couple of months. I was doing maybe once a month. Just to have some action going on, we’re getting one every Sunday. That one’s probably got us close to a 60% open rate. We’ll follow up with anybody that didn’t open from there.
Have you reached out to the asset managers that have sent you stuff if they have any other friends or peers of different banks yet?
We have tried that. Unfortunately, it’s fallen dead. They’re either unresponsive or they’ll say, “We’ll get back to you. We’re a little busy right now.” It’s a strategy that we’ve tried to use that’s fallen on deaf ears for the few that we have reached out to.
Would you say the Fast Track was worth coming to?
Yes. Without the Fast Track, I’d probably be one note in at this point. My whole goal with going down to Fast Track was I wanted to be up and running the Sunday night I was leaving. I tell everybody that is asking, “How did you get going so quick?” I was like, “There’s a guy named Scott Carson in a Fast Track program that I attended and he gave me all the tools that I need. Now, it’s just about me going out and doing it.”
How much local networking are you doing at different meet ups and real estate clubs that are in the DFW area?
Unfortunately, I don’t go to a single meetup. I’ve found in the past that there are a lot of sales-y meetups in the DFW area. Maybe there are some good small niche ones. For right now, I haven’t really focused on it because a lot of those investors are also either being poached at that same meeting or savvy enough to want some returns that we’re not offering.
What are you doing to attract new investors?
In attracting the new investors, I’ve tried to post articles about just experiences that we’ve had with rentals. Obviously, rentals are a top topic on any real estate forum. What we’ll do is share some pictures about some rentals that have been trashed or say, “Do you want to be a landlord?” That was my biggest attraction right there. I probably got close to 4,000 or 5,000 shares or views through that post and got scheduled phone calls with investors. It’s hit or miss with each post that we put out there, but at the end of the day, it’s being consistent with it. I had a scheduled phone call that I’ve had to pushback for a few other things going on at work. I’m probably getting a phone call once a week where we’re talking to a potential investor or somebody who wants to learn a little bit more about notes and maybe partner and go from there.
Are you posting strictly on Facebook or BiggerPockets or other places?
I’ve been removed from the BiggerPockets Facebook group. They didn’t like my content there. I was being honest, but they didn’t like it. Everywhere else there are a couple of note buyer groups out on Facebook. I post on Instagram. I post on my LinkedIn page, both business and my personal.
Are you posting to the BiggerPockets page?
I do. I’ll go to the market place there. I’m a pro member and I’ll post some upcoming deals that we have. In general, things that we’re doing within BiggerPockets. I try to stay active in terms of people looking for advice, “We just saw something about notes that seems really interesting.” I’ll share my thoughts about what I think notes are and be genuine. Whether it’s right, wrong or indifferent advice, it shows that I have some knowledge of what notes are.
You’re not a little bit. You’ve pulled out seventeen deals or ten and you got another seventeen.
That’s possible seventeen.
There’s nothing to be disappointed about.
Not at all. I’m very happy with where we’ve been and where we’ve gotten so far and I look forward to what’s coming up down the pipeline.
What would you say has been the biggest a-ha moment that maybe you thought would be a little more difficult on the front end that turned out to be a lot easier than what you expected?
Putting myself out there. I’m not necessarily a private person, but I’ve viewed social media as a platform for everybody to post all the great things that they’re doing. That’s all you ever see. I was like, “I just don’t want to be that person that’s always doing that.” Looking at it from a business perspective and saying, “It doesn’t matter what some think because not everyone thinks the same way.” That’s why there are a lot of us out there. It was getting over that hurdle of putting yourself out there and then seeing what happens. Here we are now.
Have you had any pushback from friends, family or anything like that?
There is no pushback. What’s funny is they all think I’m full-time. They all think based on my activity on social media, like, “You must be doing amazing.” I was like, “I’m doing good. I wouldn’t say I’m doing amazing. Amazing for me is doing this full-time.” They’re always shocked to hear that I’m doing this on the weekends and at nights.
What are some tools that you’re using to help to share that out there on different things?
My biggest app is Zoho Social. It’s a free application. I’m not able to schedule anything. That’s a piece that you can upgrade to. I probably will. I just create a bunch of drafts and I get them prepared and then post them out. It allows me to hit every piece of my social media that I need to on one publish button.
You’re working 40-plus hours a week at the job. You’ve got a little bit of flexibility there if you need to answer a phone call or an email or schedule time.
I’m able to step away. We’re not too strict on time clocks and things like that with the corporate job. If a call comes in, I can usually either take it in another room ten minutes later or maybe I can take it right there. It’s pretty flexible in that regard.
When do you think the timeframe is that you’ll be putting your notice in?
Hopefully, they don’t see this, but ideally at somewhere around March.
Let’s just not share it to your Facebook page.
It will only go to a select few. I’ve thought about maybe doing December but what I’m wanting to do is just max out my 401(k) for the rest of the year. Max it out again, contributing every dollar I can from my paycheck for the rest of that. Max out the 401(k), walk away with a sizeable retirement plan that I can invest on the side as well with notes and take every tax advantage that they can with the 401(k) piece. My accounts, based on our track record so far, I don’t see any reason why I won’t be hitting that goal.
Are you contributing to your own self-directed IRAs?
I do. I maxed those out $5,500 or whatever the amount is right now. I maxed out the retirement plan at work and do everything we can to sock away the tax-free dollars.
I’m so excited to see the success you’re having. I’m proud of you. You’re rocking and killing it and closing from other sources that are the low hanging fruit that everybody else is chasing for the most part.
We still use a David Pollio and then John Keith. Those guys have some stuff that’ll pop through then that makes sense. I’ll throw a bit on there and we’ll get accepted. You’re right. We’ve got to stay focused on finding leads out there that maybe others know about, but it’s not low-hanging fruit.
What’s the best advice that you would give to somebody out there who’s looking to get notes from the fix and flip? What’s some good advice you’d give somebody?
At the end of the day, if you’re already doing real estate and obviously you’re taking some action at that point, but still to me, it comes down to taking action. I feel a lot of us are all stuck with education. We want to learn and learn. We still never feel like we’re there yet. You’re not going to, there’s not enough in a book. There’s not enough that you’re going to tell somebody or I’m going to tell somebody that’s going to get them over the hurdle or over the fear. You just go. People always ask me, “Aren’t you afraid of spending that much money or buying this or buying that?” I was like, “I’d be afraid if I did.” It’s a different mindset. It took me a while. I was a big spender in college. I left college with $8,000 in credit card debt. My wife wouldn’t let us join bank accounts until I paid off all my stuff. You turned me into the frugal person that I think I am now. With the book, her and changing my mindset about what money can do for you, that’s what’s helped.
Besides Rich Dad, Poor Dad, you have a favorite book out there?
The book you shared with us, Win-Win Revolution. I try to share that one as much as possible. It’s a good book about how nonperforming notes can be turned into performing notes and you can help a borrower out. In the worst case, you’ve got to pick the property back. I like the Richest Man in Babylon. It’s a frugal book. He is talking about saving, investing and making your money work for you. There’s a Profit First book that I like. I can’t remember that one. That’s a good book. I’ve read a number of books. I’m trying to think another one that I always listen to on audiobooks. A good one is The Millionaire Next Door. That’s a classic. There’s nothing new here with the books that have inspired me and got into where I am. There’s something to be said about those books that those taking action just works.
That’s the big thing. It’s all about getting off the hump and putting things into place. Things that we necessarily talk about in the Fast Track or the things that aren’t really complicated. It’s more of get out there and do these things and rinse and repeat. It’s like planting seeds. You plant them, fertilize and water, give them sun and they eventually bear fruit.
You got it. That’s it. Many of us get bogged down in the details and the fear of taking action for losing something. It’s just a mindset.
Logan, I’m absolutely tickled pink in what kind of success you’re having. You’re doing an amazing job and you’re also there to help answer questions for people out there, which is commendable as well too.
I can’t thank you enough. Every time I get a response from my asset email, I want to call you up and say, “Thanks,” and then hang up. Just keep reaffirming the fact that it works. That’s all I want to say. See you later.
You said that a few times in the Facebook group too, “I’ve got another asset manager that’s responded.”
That’s the point I want to make.
What you should do is go back into your ESP and see how many times you emailed that asset manager before they actually reached out to you.
That’s probably pushing 15, 20, maybe 30 times.
You’re thinking the average has been at least over a dozen times.
I think 80% of sales are made after the fifth contact.
I think I’ve heard that somewhere.
If you think about how many times we emailed them out there and I don’t want you to tell us the number, but if you figure out the amount of profit you’ve made off the deals, the performing, the other ones that you’ve got that you’ve foreclosed on. What do you think each asset manager email that you’ve sent out, not to 5,000, but what each and each email that you’ve originated, what do you think it’s been worth to you?
I’ve got to get that together and see what that spits out. I’d be interested to see what that tells me.
I guarantee you it’s going to have a comma in it, at least.
I would think so. We’ve done pretty well with the stuff. We’ve been fortunate to do the due diligence on the front end that’s turned into two a good reperforming loan or do the due diligence on a foreclosure that we were able to take back that wasn’t too terribly damaged and close and other stuff that made sense.
You do due diligence, you’re doing the right thing. Some sage advice from our buddy, Logan of Sage Notes out there. What’s the best way for people to reach out to you and get ahold of you?
You can reach me at my email. It’s LoganHassinger@SageNotesInc.com. You can visit our Facebook page both with Sage Notes and my personal profile. I’m out there with Twitter, LinkedIn. I’ve got a couple of people that always want to reach out and see my professional background as well.
What’s the website?
Go to their website to catch everything else he’s doing up there for you. Logan, thanks. I got a lot of great nuggets here for people. We didn’t prepare this at all. We jumped in here and just started talking.
I got home from work with a tummy ache and we were having a conversation.
It’s amazing how much better you feel after you’re out of the job sometimes. Thanks so much for going out and kicking ass, taking names and sharing some great nuggets here.
Thank you, Scott.
Like Logan said and the things we talk about, they may seem simple but if you keep doing them and doing it again, it’s going to feed you again and again. It will feed you good. Go out and take some action. We’ll see you all at the top.
- Sage Notes
- Rich Dad Poor Dad
- Madison Management Services
- Raymond James
- Fast Track
- BiggerPockets – Logan’s BiggerPockets page
- Zoho Social
- Win-Win Revolution
- Richest Man in Babylon
- Profit First
- The Millionaire Next Door
- Sage Notes – Facebook page
- Sage Notes on Twitter
- Sage Notes on LinkedIn
About Logan Hassinger
Logan Hassinger is a real estate note investor based in Fort Worth, Texas. His Experienced Financial Analyst with a demonstrated history of providing financial solutions to team members and investors. Skilled in Analytical Analysis, Modeling, Asset Management, Real Estate Investing and Distressed Debt. Strong business development professional with a Bachelor of Business Administration (B.B.A.) focused in Finance from University of North Texas.